Tribe.net. Local Connections Julian http://lisapoetry.tribe.net/thread/f0faed5f-d862-473b-89ee-041c656afbbe#b545dc22-e945-4082-843d-0af21d98a188 2009-06-30T13:27:04Z 2009-06-30T13:27:04Z

Good call. I found a few Dickinson ballads that I'm going to try to mimic. Thanks.

Julian 2009-06-30T13:27:04Z Jon http://lisapoetry.tribe.net/thread/f0faed5f-d862-473b-89ee-041c656afbbe#595d7661-472e-4efe-bd03-397a6d25792a 2009-06-27T03:09:05Z 2009-06-27T03:09:05Z

not sure about the textbook version...though there might be something. "Now is the winter of our discontent" - that is a good example. I suspect the discrepancy is that between spoken English in his time and presently... or perhaps the "mood" of the thing... in our language today, "now" tends to be used aggressively, as a kind of command or immediacy.. I suspect in today's English the phrase, in terms of meaning could be more clearly written... "and then came the suffering..." where "Now" is not so striking or hard or quick...but a subtle movement forward...the way we might use a pause or hesitation, rather than a direction or command... Shakespeare is probably the single most complex poet on the planet...ever. Plus, again, even though it is English, it is a very different English than modern English. It is only a few hundred years after Chaucer...and his English...which was closer to modern German, than to modern English. So, if you want to write in a formal style and experiment with meter and such, I would focus on modern work, in which the English used is that with which you are already familiar. Then, there should be less confusion. Maybe work with Dickinson, Emerson and Whitman. Their English is American English, reasonably modern and yet more formal in structure than most of the poems written today.

Jon 2009-06-27T03:09:05Z Julian http://lisapoetry.tribe.net/thread/f0faed5f-d862-473b-89ee-041c656afbbe#064853ce-0094-40c9-a47c-5249189b0641 2009-06-26T22:13:44Z 2009-06-26T22:13:44Z

For instance, when I read Shakespeare's line "Now is the winter of our discontent" out loud, I just don't get a clear sense that the line is written in iambic pentameter. For me, it would be natural to stress "now" instead of "is" and to read both "of" and "our" as unstressed. So, I'm wondering if there is a textbook way to tell which syllables are stressed/unstressed, such that a poet could be judged to have failed at writing in a particular meter. Admittedly, I just might be over thinking this.

Julian 2009-06-26T22:13:44Z Jon http://lisapoetry.tribe.net/thread/f0faed5f-d862-473b-89ee-041c656afbbe#94c42c35-651b-4d47-a205-b2e06da49046 2009-06-26T00:28:56Z 2009-06-26T00:28:56Z

could you give some specific examples? one idea might simply be to read the word out loud, and also read the full line of poetry out loud. That might give you a natural sense of the rhythm and "music" in the piece... when you read Shakespeare out loud, the iambic pentameter really, you know..sings. The beat is just perfect. Even if not "conscious" your own ear should be a good guide to what fits and what does not.

Jon 2009-06-26T00:28:56Z Julian http://lisapoetry.tribe.net/thread/f0faed5f-d862-473b-89ee-041c656afbbe#dda95f36-e765-4b7f-a11f-93e99560023d 2009-06-25T18:01:50Z 2009-06-25T18:01:50Z

Hi all, I'm experimenting with writing formal verse (accentual-syllabic) and I am having some trouble consistently discerning stressed from unstressed syllables. There are some cases where it seems that a given word could go either way. If anyone has any pointers or resources on this to share, I'd appreciate it.

Julian 2009-06-25T18:01:50Z